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Debit Validation...was it done properly? (Long post)

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OK...need you experts guidance on this! First, some background.

Had an electric utility account via Con Ed. Unknowingly, my bill was calculated each month via an "estimated reading". At the end of the year, they did an actual reading, and charged me another $500 on top of already being behind a few hundred. Then, I lost my job, however Con Ed had worked out a payment agreement with me.

My apartment building was sold, and I was forced to move. So I never paid Con Ed off.

Eventually, it was turned over to NCO Financial Systems. I never responded to them I received maybe two letters. Last letter was in 2007.

Fast forward to recent times, have been getting phone calls from portfolio recovery associates, LLC. I sent a DV request, and received a letter that states:

    Original Creditor's name and address
    Account Holder's name and CURRENT address (no where does it mention my old address, where I received the service)
    Last 4 digits of my SS
    Date of loan (is this considered a loan??)

    Date Portfolio purchased this account (1/2008)
    Current Outstanding balance

Second page is a Privacy notice, which lists their NYS (my state) License Number.

Third page is an "Affidavit or Ownership" which is a statement by Portfolio's Administrative Manager which state they are an authorized employee of Portfolio, that according to the records provided to them by Con Ed, there was due and payable from me the amount of $1046.32. Also, that the Account Seller's(Con Ed) interest in the account has been transferred to the Account Assignee (Portfolio), and that the Account Seller has retained no further interest in said account or the proceeds thereof.......etc. etc.

OK...sounds like actual DV, right? If I wanted to, could I send a second request to Portfolio, this time demanding statements and payments? Is there any SOL in this case that I need to be aware of?


Also, are they allowed to charge me interest on this account?

Sub: #1 posted on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 08:56


Send Portfolio a DV letter. They are lowlifes; you can read about them on

Sub: #2 posted on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 14:11


Welcome to the community Guest.
They are trying to pull wool over your eyes on this one. Validation consists of documentation from the original creditor. That affidavit is not validation, perhaps if they would have provided you with previous statements, a breakdown of the bill including any interest (if allowed by your state or the original contract) a copy of the original contract and a bill of sale or assignment contract was included then they would have pretty much validated it. That wasn't validation, they pretty much gave you verification of the debt followed by the affidavit which is worthless as far as validation is concerned.

Sub: #3 posted on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 17:00

(Posts: 2934 | Credits: 192.01)

Perhaps they need a friendly reminder of what real validation is. Check my signature link for a validation letter template and send it to them with the enclosure, certified mail, return receipt requested.

Sub: #4 posted on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 17:01

(Posts: 2934 | Credits: 192.01)

Thank you! So your saying that with all legal dvs, they must send you copies of the original paperwork?
And Guest, if you read my original post, I DID send the a DV request, using the templates on this site.
The DV request states:
Please see my above notes and questions in red I want to make sure I fully understand. Thanks so much!

Sub: #5 posted on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 18:21

Kelly from NY Kelly from NY

(Posts: 35 | Credits: 12.23)

6. Yes, it is four years for this type of debt.
7. To verify you would need to contact either
(as I'm not sure what entity in NY governs his) state tax department or comptrollers office.
9. No, this would be substantiated by either a bill of sale (if they purchased the debt) or an assignment contract (if they are collecting on behalf of the original creditor)

As to things that do not apply then they will not have to provide since they are not applicable since it is in fact a utility account.

Sub: #6 posted on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 18:29

(Posts: 2934 | Credits: 192.01)

dont they still have to show that he even had an account with Con-Ed? There has to be some kind of documentation that he started service with them in his name, doesnt there?
To the OP, this is nowhere near legal validation. They simply dont have the proof, thats what my guess is--look at what they said to you in their response:
Now, dont get this wrong--Portfolio knows darn well exactly what the law requires them to send you in response to a DV letter. Theyve been around long enough to know how this game works. If they really had this documentation, as their "affidavit" claims, then they wouldnt have had to send you the affidavit!!! They would have just sent you copies of those documents "provided by Con-Ed"!! Thats what they must do according to the law, and they know it.
How long ago did you have this account?
Something else I would check into, just to make sure they really arent trying to mess with you--check all three of your credit reports. They even called this a "loan" in their reply to you, so who knows how they listed it on your bureaus? You may find numerous FCRA violations there, and you can sue over those to the tune of $1000 each. Many people look into the fdcpa end of things, but not the FCRA. Check both--cover all the bases.

Sub: #7 posted on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 09:04

skydivr7673 skydivr7673
Moderators Cum Industry Expert
(Posts: 2037 | Credits: 579.66)

OK, so as advised I sent a second DV request to Portfolio Recovery, told them they did not properly validate. Here is their response

OK, that whole jumbled paragraph citing case law confused the heck out of me, sounds like another language! But from what I read, Portfolio Recovery is notorious for this. Are the correct though, did they really properly validate ( sample of what I receive is in my posts above), or are PRA bull sh-ting me?
How do I proceed?

Sub: #8 posted on Thu, 07/10/2008 - 07:09


Tell them that there is a difference between "VERIFICATION" AND "VALIDATION". They have not validated.

Sub: #9 posted on Thu, 07/10/2008 - 12:57


Let me make sure then that I understand this correctly. What they are providing is verification? The case law they have provided is based on verification. What I am asking for isvalidation, and is completely different. Is this correct?

How do I word my letter back to them? Is there any case law I should provide? I don't know how to respond to them. And giving PRA's history, I want to be extremely careful.


Sub: #10 posted on Thu, 07/10/2008 - 18:51


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