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Debt Consolidation Forums Payday Loan help

Illegal PDL and ACH reversal





Sub: Illegal PDL and ACH reversal
Tue, 09/06/2009 06:17

hey- quick question for y'all. I'm dealing with paydaymax, an outright illegal payday loan company overseas.

I'm trying to get out of a hole with this company- i've paid well over the principal on what i was lent (like 1200 dollars over) and still have 900 outstanding.

I've sent them a letter revoking ACH privileges but I doubt they'll respect this. I know they got it (at least over fax) as they've suddenly blocked access to my account.

my question is- given this company is illegal and cannot legally lend to me, any contract i've entered is null and void. With that in mind, any authorization I've provided as part of their loan contracts is also null. So I know you can reverse ACH transacations at BofA within 180 days if they're provably un-authorized. I'd like to stick it to PDM and make this happen... just reverse enough so that i haven't paid them anymore than the principal.

anyone ever had luck attempting this, or am i crazy? I feel like i could make this happen with the right choice of words and a friendly branch manager.



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Sub: #1 quick update- I was able to get all the money i requested back fTue, 06/09/2009 - 06:17



quick update- I was able to get all the money i requested back from BofA. They reversed 5 transactions totaling around 750 dollars altogether. PDL has not contacted me or attempted to debit my account.

so far so good!


giollachrist
giollachrist
Posts: 45
Credits: 876

Sub: #2 UpdateTue, 05/26/2009 - 06:21



Ok, found out from my bank today that any debits made to my account before my revocation cannot be reversed. If they happened after my revocation, they could be, but my bank will not do it for ones made before that date. Really a bummer! Was hoping to stick it to some of these companies that refuse to give me a PIF and make threatening phone calls.


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Sub: #3 I too am filing a dispute for ACH debits that were taken out of Thu, 05/21/2009 - 22:18



I too am filing a dispute for ACH debits that were taken out of my account under the same premise. The loans were illegal and therefore any collection on those loans is void. You can't enforce an illegal contract. With the above court case sited and it being a storefront operation, I wonder if it would make a difference if it was done by internet PDL's. Especially ones that are out of courntry? One of the debits I am disputing is with ZIP 19 which isn't even in the US. The other's are Paydayloan Yes, Amerilaon (who CA issued a Cease and Refrain Order) and Spotya. I am very interested in knowing what occurrs with your dispute and how the companies respond.


Unregistered

Sub: #4 good idea. don't know how many people are following this threadThu, 05/21/2009 - 14:51



good idea. don't know how many people are following this thread, but I feel like anyone and everyone in our situation needs to do this. If we all begin to put the screws to these companies, they will simply bend and break under the pressure of it all. Eventually, their ACH processor (who deals as the intermediary between your bank and the PDL in a reversal procedure) will drop them as clients or worse... report them and get them banned altogether.

Any admin out there up for putting together a sticky on illegal online PDLs and ach reversals? as i said, my bank (bofa, which is notoriously miserable to everyone) was actually very receptive to my problem and said they do this ALL THE TIME. They also said its rare for any online pdl to respond to or dispute the chargeback, meaning a default decision on the consumers behalf.

this idea should not die with this thread, and the visitors of this sit should be aware of all options available to them when dealing with Illegal, online PDLS.


giollachrist
giollachrist
Posts: 45
Credits: 876

Sub: #5 You might also send a complaint to your state's Attorney GeneralThu, 05/21/2009 - 13:06



You might also send a complaint to your state's Attorney General or Dept. of Justice - they will also send a letter to the PDL - at least I know that NC will and if PDL's are illegal in your state than they probably will too


Unregistered

Sub: #6 okay folks.... i dove into the rabbit hole this afternoon. PaydThu, 05/21/2009 - 12:55



okay folks.... i dove into the rabbit hole this afternoon. Paydaymax has not responsed to any of my requests and my waiting period has expired. I called of BofA and am disputing about 750 dollars in transactions- an amount roughly equal to the settlement offer. This still leaves me PIF on the principal plus interest, and the guy at bofa claims said they could only look back 60 days, which eliminates the potential to reverse any others.

So I have to do an affidavit and fax that, at which point they'll give me a provisional credit as the investigation proceeds forward.

The guy i talked to was very nice and seemed like a straight-shooter. Told me he gets PDL calls ALL THE TIME. most importantly, I asked him what my chances of success are--he told me that the provisional credit rarely gets denied. Also, he remarked that in most cases of ACH reversals, the PDL does not even respond... meaning bofa will default their decision in my favor.

So I gotta fill out my affidavit, should take up to a week to get money back, but I'm glad i did this all around.

Now all i gotta do is wait and see how my pdl reacts to all this.... if at all! PDM is notoriously vicious with non-payment... but i hope they'll see the light on this one and just leave it alone. Im guessing pressure from the BBB and my bank will probably scare them off.


giollachrist
giollachrist
Posts: 45
Credits: 876

Sub: #7 I guess from now on we need to add the statement in our revocatiThu, 05/21/2009 - 07:16



I guess from now on we need to add the statement in our revocation letters that we also revoke all agreements to arbitration on the contract.


fixingit
fixingit
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Sub: #8 Per Guest"My work is a pretty much your standard NYC corporationThu, 05/21/2009 - 07:14



Per Guest"My work is a pretty much your standard NYC corporation, so it could be really ugly.... ugh not sure what to do here! very conflicted "
I'm in same boat!!!! Hope all works out keep us posted!


giollachrist
giollachrist
Posts: 45
Credits: 876

Sub: #9 I looked up that case -Thu, 05/21/2009 - 07:10



Facts of the Case:

John Cardegna signed a contract for a loan from Buckeye Check Cashing. The contract contained a clause in which Cardegna agreed to resolve any controversies over the loan through arbitration. Cardegna later sued Buckeye, claiming that the conditions for the loan stipulated by the contract were illegal. Buckeye filed a motion in Florida district court to have the case resolved by arbitration, as required by the contract. Cardegna countered that the contract as a whole was illegal and that the arbitration clause was therefore not enforceable. The court agreed and ruled for Cardegna.

On appeal, the state appeals court reversed, holding that the Federal Arbitration Act, as interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court, allows arbitration clauses to be enforced even if they are part of otherwise invalid contracts. The appeals court relied on the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Prima Paint Corporation v. Flood & Conklin Manufacturing Company. The Florida Supreme Court disagreed with the appeals court's use of Prima Paint, however, because the contract in that case had been merely voidable, while the contract in Cardegna's case was actually illegal. The Florida Supreme Court therefore reversed, ruling in favor of Cardegna.

Question:

Under the Federal Arbitration Act, may a party avoid arbitration by arguing that the contract in which the arbitration clause is contained is illegal?
Conclusion:

No. The 7-1 majority (Justice Samuel Alito not participating) ruled that challenges to the legality of a contract as a whole must be argued before the arbitrator rather than a court.


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Sub: #10 interesting. my pdl is notoriously nasty so I'm curious to see Wed, 05/20/2009 - 16:52



interesting. my pdl is notoriously nasty so I'm curious to see what will transpire. I've also prepared to reverse a fraction of the transactions, which is small enough that I've still PIF + interest to the PDL. I've made this clear in a stern manner in a couple of faxes- two so far in the past 7 days and no response whatsoever. my account is still blocked and i haven't defaulted yet- but I expect they'll try to extract money from my account come friday. My deadline for communication is tomorrow (thursday) and if they still havent gotten back I'll be going to the bank, requesting a reversal (which will require me to file an affidavit), and putting a debit block on my account.

frankly, I really can't afford to pay them more and given that i've paid 1300 dollars over the principal, i have a hard time swallowing any of it and if they wont settle with me, im reversing some of it. I am a bit concerned about the retaliation in terms of getting my office called or my references called. My work is a pretty much your standard NYC corporation, so it could be really ugly.... ugh not sure what to do here! very conflicted


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